Does it matter what we think? Yes.
Does it matter what we say? Yes.
Does it matter who hears us? Yes.
All of this affects what we end up doing, and what we do matters.
The following was heard around the virtual water fountain:
=====
[7:29:50 PM] silent.ghost80: …
[6:44:54 AM] Sam Hunter: Thanks Mark for the Alan Watts on C G Jung talk
[6:45:20 AM] silent.ghost80: np i saw it and was like ohh i should share
[6:47:19 AM] Sam Hunter: "That to the degree you condemn others and find evil in others you are to that degree unconscious of the same thing in yourself... or at least to the potentiality of it"
[6:48:02 AM] Sam Hunter: there... needed the complete statement
[6:49:09 AM] Sam Hunter: this is also my own view... in fact, probably my own deepest view... where there may be others equally deep but doubtfully another any deeper save for the very world view I hold
[6:50:17 AM] silent.ghost80: so then your a buddhist
[6:50:26 AM] silent.ghost80: (cwl)
[6:50:51 AM] silent.ghost80: me too
[8:38:07 AM] Sam Hunter: If someone had to label me... I would call it "monistic idealism"
[8:38:26 AM] Sam Hunter: my world view springs forth from this
[10:10:25 AM] silent.ghost80:
[10:10:42 AM] silent.ghost80:
[10:11:00 AM] silent.ghost80:
[10:11:36 AM] silent.ghost80: what this dude talks about reminds me of stevo more so then being a sociopath
[10:22:34 AM] Chico: There are so many problems with Alan Watts' reasoning that I would urge caution. His sycophancy of Jung is the first red flag you should question. Placing Watts' slick rhetoric on a pedestal is a recipe for disaster, in my opinion. I was so appalled that I had to stop listening to him after 30 minutes.
[10:39:53 AM] silent.ghost80: wow really
[10:41:50 AM] silent.ghost80: what specifically did you find appalling
[10:43:13 AM] silent.ghost80: To view this shared file, go to: Personality Disorder Test Results.html Personality Disorder Test Results.html https://login.skype.com/login/sso?go=webclient.xmm&docid=0-eus-d2-0f940e9a4dc55722b3ee57e20dc5ff60
[10:43:23 AM] silent.ghost80: apparently ima little anti social lol
[10:50:07 AM] Chico: I'm not being contrarian just to shock. I just have this bad habit of exercising my own judgment.
[10:50:23 AM] Chico: Consider the quote Sam found so appealing.
[10:51:08 AM] Chico: Watts is practically an apologist for evil.
[10:51:52 AM] Chico: This remind me of Zook's idiotic argument that sociopathy has been with us forever, therefore it is a non-issue.
[10:52:07 AM] Chico: It is THE issue.
[10:52:56 AM] silent.ghost80: well if you listened to more of his body of work watts says it would seem that way to a western thinker
[10:53:01 AM] Chico: He bases his views on false history like the evil of Hitler and the Holocaust, not even aware of the deception he has fallen for.
[10:53:26 AM] silent.ghost80: thats was the topics for decades after ww 2
[10:53:42 AM] Chico: How can your reasoning be correct if built on a false foundation?
[10:54:16 AM] silent.ghost80: that wasnt the version anyone went with back then
[10:54:26 AM] silent.ghost80: i get your point
[10:54:26 AM] Chico: True, but that is no excuse.
[10:54:40 AM] silent.ghost80: but you know thats a little much
[10:55:09 AM] silent.ghost80: he could have just as easily said mara
[10:55:20 AM] silent.ghost80: as the embodiment of evil
[10:55:48 AM] silent.ghost80: or the cathloic church
[10:55:51 AM] Chico: It comes down to a question of truth. He is cock-sure he has it, so sure that he can build a castle on it, but he is fooled.
[10:56:19 AM] Chico: All deceptions, no?
[10:56:48 AM] Chico: You cannot believe the deceptions and reason properly.
[10:56:53 AM] silent.ghost80: you were deceived
[10:57:02 AM] silent.ghost80: by your logic you're not credible either
[10:57:08 AM] Chico: Exactly. We all were and still are.
[10:57:18 AM] silent.ghost80: <no harshness meant >
[10:57:24 AM] Chico: None taken.
[10:57:54 AM] silent.ghost80: then there isnt a point
[10:58:13 AM] Chico: The point is that there are no gurus.
[10:58:17 AM] silent.ghost80: if we have no platform to work from
[10:58:36 AM] Chico: The point is to build the platform -- truth.
[10:58:54 AM] silent.ghost80: we have all been deceived so there is no truth
[10:59:07 AM] Chico: :D
[10:59:43 AM] Chico: Just because we don't have it doesn't mean there is no truth.
[11:00:12 AM] silent.ghost80: so then were just back at being agent mulder with the ufo poster
[11:00:48 AM] Chico: Isn't that what is required in a world of deception?
[11:00:57 AM] Chico: Back to square one?
[11:01:25 AM] silent.ghost80: or the other thing that has been done in history
[11:01:44 AM] silent.ghost80: dont like the way the ppl in charge run thing kill em all and start over
[11:02:04 AM] Chico: That doesn't work.
[11:02:09 AM] silent.ghost80: not saying im for that
[11:02:20 AM] silent.ghost80: but its what has been done
[11:02:52 AM] Chico: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is insanity.
[11:03:02 AM] Chico: We have to break out of the cycle.
[11:03:47 AM] Chico: Sociopathy is within the human species. We have to control it. It cannot be eliminated.
[11:04:11 AM] silent.ghost80: ok so accepting the darkness of our species
[11:04:40 AM] Chico: Not accepting exactly. Recognizing it and doing something to manage it properly.
[11:05:07 AM] silent.ghost80: [1:04:42 PM] Chico: Recognizing it and doing something to manage
<<< is that not accepting it
[11:05:07 AM] Chico: That's where I criticize Watts. He's accepting.
[11:05:37 AM] Chico: No. It's comply or resist. I advocate resistance.
[11:06:36 AM] silent.ghost80: i didnt take that away from his talk
[11:06:55 AM] Chico: I know, we all see different things.
[11:07:19 AM] silent.ghost80: i got once you see it and understand it for what it is it can be managed or controlled
[11:07:37 AM] Chico: We are all interpreted differently, often not as we intend.
[11:07:51 AM] silent.ghost80: indeed
[11:08:05 AM] Chico: What was his solution for control?
[11:08:36 AM] Chico: We must not judge?
[11:08:44 AM] Chico: That's a non-solution.
[11:09:01 AM] silent.ghost80: while thats the buddhist thing
[11:09:08 AM] silent.ghost80: on an individual level
[11:09:16 AM] silent.ghost80: your own shadow
[11:09:55 AM] Chico: So Buddha was wrong. Another guru like Watts.
[11:10:28 AM] Chico: It's not an individual issue.
[11:10:40 AM] silent.ghost80: you must not judge your own wickedness to the point you deny its existence
[11:10:43 AM] Chico: It's a human issue.
[11:11:13 AM] Chico: You do not deny it. You work to cure it.
[11:11:39 AM] Chico: To manage it for the service of good.
[11:11:55 AM] silent.ghost80: wright mind and wright action
[11:12:31 AM] Chico: Yes. All things have pros and cons. The solution is proper balance. Humanity is unbalanced with sociopaths running the show.
[11:12:49 AM] Chico: We have to restore balance.
[11:13:00 AM] silent.ghost80: ok buddah
[11:13:09 AM] silent.ghost80: 
[11:13:18 AM] Chico: Not personal enlightenment. Group balance.
[11:13:36 AM] Chico: Species balance. World balance.
[11:13:49 AM] silent.ghost80: if every lego is balanced the whole should be too
[11:14:19 AM] Chico: Every ego cannot be balanced. We have sociopaths among us. We have to factor that in.
[11:14:52 AM] Chico: Even saints can be a problem!
[11:15:06 AM] silent.ghost80: yeah some people suck at learning and cant be taught
[11:15:37 AM] Chico: Hmmm...
[11:15:56 AM] Chico: Some are more difficult than others, and some perhaps are impossible.
[11:16:10 AM] silent.ghost80: yeah
[11:16:25 AM] silent.ghost80: they're just the worst students
[11:16:26 AM] Chico: I tend to be optimistic that we can learn.
[11:17:01 AM] Chico: Humanity can learn. I could be wrong, but I hope I am not.
[11:17:21 AM] silent.ghost80: you have a tuff fight against mob mentality there
[11:17:39 AM] Chico: Comply is easy. Resist is tough.
[11:17:51 AM] Chico: I understand the choice.
[11:18:58 AM] silent.ghost80: honestly im probably more anarchic then you i want absolute freedom and to be responsible for my own safety
[11:19:10 AM] Chico: Keep in mind that saints are ready to forgive everything. That too is unbalanced.
[11:19:23 AM] silent.ghost80: yeah
[11:19:42 AM] silent.ghost80: so your avatar should be darth anakin
[11:20:17 AM] Chico: Yes, step one is to be responsible for ourselves. Put your oxygen mask on first. Step two is to be responsible for others. Help them put on their oxygen masks.
[11:20:45 AM] Chico: Darth Anakin? (rofl)
[11:20:54 AM] silent.ghost80: ironically the world you want isnt very different from the one i want
[11:21:13 AM] Chico: I don't doubt it.
[11:21:23 AM] silent.ghost80: yes like half anakin and half vader
[11:21:24 AM] Chico: Most of us want the same thing.
[11:21:34 AM] silent.ghost80: bringing balance to the force
[11:22:12 AM] Chico: Ah, good point.
[11:22:51 AM] silent.ghost80: remember yoda said he would bring balance killed all the sith and jedi masters but 2
[11:23:44 AM] silent.ghost80: then when luke is the only jedi left he take out the rest of the sith and become a jedi again
[11:23:44 AM] Chico: We've been stuck on the killing thing.
[11:24:13 AM] Chico: That has to change.
[11:24:27 AM] Chico: But can we change it without killing?
[11:24:31 AM] silent.ghost80: so the solution was to take those away with that power
[11:24:34 AM] Chico: I think we have to.
[11:24:58 AM] silent.ghost80: would you have that mentality in a warzone ?
[11:25:13 AM] Chico: Of course. (thinking kill or be killed)
[11:25:22 AM] silent.ghost80: the protective use of overwhelming force is necessary
[11:25:50 AM] Chico: That is when the evil within can serve the common good.
[11:26:08 AM] silent.ghost80: so accepting it is a good thing
[11:26:12 AM] Chico: But it's risky. Balance is necessary.
[11:26:29 AM] Chico: Not accepting, managing.
[11:26:36 AM] silent.ghost80: the abyss stares back
[11:26:37 AM] Chico: I see them as different.
[11:27:05 AM] Chico: Self-reflection.
[11:27:17 AM] Chico: when the abyss stares back.
[11:27:53 AM] silent.ghost80: we even have ancient sayings like that to reminds us
[11:28:04 AM] silent.ghost80: but it never works
[11:28:28 AM] Chico: Yes, that's why I see the cycles. We can't seem to get off the circle of insanity.
[11:28:56 AM] Chico: We need to do something different that hasn't been tried before.
[11:29:04 AM] Chico: Like Neo, but without the guns.
[11:29:19 AM] silent.ghost80: i agree and im having a hard time seeing how that different from the inspiration for buddhism
[11:29:44 AM] silent.ghost80: getting off the great wheel of incarnation
[11:30:11 AM] Chico: I'm no expert on buddhism, so perhaps you can teach me how you see the Buddhist perspective.
[11:30:51 AM] silent.ghost80: one man noticed the cycles that cause suffering in the world and wanted to find a way out of them
[11:31:02 AM] Chico: And did he?
[11:31:29 AM] silent.ghost80: id say so
[11:31:40 AM] Chico: But is the world any different?
[11:32:03 AM] silent.ghost80: no one is big enough to change the world
[11:32:23 AM] silent.ghost80: but it did do a lot of good
[11:32:23 AM] Chico: Then it will take all of us working together.
[11:33:12 AM] silent.ghost80: most buddhists wont take a life
[11:33:17 AM] silent.ghost80: of any thing
[11:33:32 AM] Chico: That is wise, if balanced.
[11:33:36 AM] silent.ghost80: but they will defang a wolf
[11:33:51 AM] Chico: Good.
[11:34:01 AM] Chico: An alternative to killing.
[11:35:28 AM] silent.ghost80: well thats the other point of kung fu
[11:35:53 AM] silent.ghost80: to make peace with your enemies by crippling them so badly they are not a threat
[11:36:07 AM] silent.ghost80: but no killing
[11:36:56 AM] Chico: Or by convincing them of the truth so that they are not a threat -- even better.
[11:38:25 AM] Chico: If sociopaths knew the truth, that they are the source of evil, would they understand that they cannot be allowed in positions of power? I wonder if that is possible, to gain their cooperation with the truth.
[11:38:47 AM] Chico: Does the truth conquer all?
[11:39:14 AM] silent.ghost80: but then fucking nihilists
[11:39:25 AM] Chico: (rofl)
[11:39:29 AM] silent.ghost80: will be in your way
[11:39:50 AM] Chico: Can't they deny themselves?
[11:40:02 AM] Chico: Maybe we could convince them with the truth too.
[11:40:08 AM] Chico: (rofl)
[11:41:02 AM] Chico: I don't have all the answers, but I am looking for them.
[11:41:45 AM] Chico: All of those areas have things to teach us -- Buddhism, Kung Fu, Nihlism, etc.
[11:42:02 AM] Chico: Star Wars, The Matrix, etc.
[11:42:21 AM] Chico: You, me, Sam, Rose, Zook, Ryan, Clinton, etc.
[11:43:01 AM] Chico: So much to learn, so little time.
[11:45:44 AM] Chico: So I don't hesitate to criticize Watts any more than I would hesitate to criticize myself.
[11:45:59 AM] Chico: If Watts is saying that, then I'm on-board.
[11:46:16 AM] Chico: But I didn't have that impression.
[11:46:31 AM] silent.ghost80: mostly all he does it try to explain eastern thinking to western ppl
[11:46:56 AM] Chico: That's probably a worthy exercise.
[11:47:27 AM] silent.ghost80: and his admsstion in that video on Jung about how he could not escape the culture he his part of - profound
[11:48:00 AM] Chico: That I mostly agree with. Our culture can be crippling.
[11:48:31 AM] Chico: Especially when it is a culture of deception and manipulation, which all cultures appear to be.
[11:48:43 AM] Chico: Because of sociopaths running the show.
[11:49:08 AM] Chico: That is the root problem.
[11:49:10 AM] silent.ghost80: i think stevo was worse then a sociopath
[11:49:18 AM] Chico: Oh?
[11:49:28 AM] silent.ghost80: but i dont disagree they are a large problem
[11:49:35 AM] silent.ghost80: with the sociopaths
[11:49:59 AM] silent.ghost80: i think he was magelomaniac and a narcists
[11:50:09 AM] silent.ghost80: or how ever the fuck you spell it
[11:50:13 AM] Chico: As sociopaths tend to be.
[11:50:27 AM] silent.ghost80: i had spell check on this bitch before microsoft took away the api
[11:50:38 AM] Chico: Language is a bitch.
[11:50:53 AM] Chico: Spelling too.
[11:51:09 AM] silent.ghost80: they why i always wanted to talk to you before if i have to spell im limited
[11:51:48 AM] Chico: We are all limited in our ability to communicate. We have to practice it to get better.
[11:52:05 AM] silent.ghost80: ive always enjoyed our little exchanges throughout the years lol
[11:52:09 AM] Chico: It's a never-ending struggle.
[11:52:26 AM] Chico: Have we had exchanges in the past?
[11:52:34 AM] silent.ghost80: yeah
[11:52:49 AM] silent.ghost80: mostly me defending an indefendable position
[11:53:01 AM] Chico: (rofl)
[11:53:15 AM] silent.ghost80: ive jumped in and ask a question or two also
[11:53:25 AM] silent.ghost80: on some of your thread somewhere
[11:54:05 AM] Chico: I usually don't notice the identities of people in the cloud.
[11:54:20 AM] silent.ghost80: and i read all debated between you and zook since nexus
[11:54:20 AM] Chico: Avatars are anonymous.
[11:54:46 AM] silent.ghost80: im always some form of silent ghost
[11:55:02 AM] silent.ghost80: even if its different word like quite spirit
[11:55:17 AM] silent.ghost80: or anagrams like lightest son
[11:55:18 AM] Chico: Cool. Forgive me for not noticing.
[11:55:49 AM] silent.ghost80: forgive me im used to ppl just knowing lol
[11:56:25 AM] silent.ghost80: hell i dont know why i bother most ppl just call me mark all over the net any way
[11:56:43 AM] silent.ghost80: lol
[11:57:13 AM] Chico: I've always been attracted to the idea of no exterior to judge by, only spirit or communication. All visual bias removed, only ideas left.
[11:57:34 AM] Chico: The forum kind of helps with that.
[11:57:51 AM] Chico: But then, deception becomes easier.
[11:58:02 AM] Chico: with anonymity.
[11:58:22 AM] Chico: Sociopaths thrive.
[11:58:37 AM] silent.ghost80: conspiracy forums drive me fucking bonkers their made up cultish rules they follow and the weird way they used the forum
[11:58:53 AM] Chico: Yep, I agree.
[11:59:19 AM] Chico: Like all good things, corrupted.
[11:59:37 AM] Chico: I would love to see that changed.
[11:59:53 AM] silent.ghost80: i hate when ppl use the admin and mod positions as ranks
[12:00:07 PM] Chico: Hierarchy, the sandbox of sociopaths.
[12:00:56 PM] Chico: Rank sucks. It's inequality.
[12:01:14 PM] silent.ghost80: then capable people like me come across as suspicious due to others ignorance
[12:01:28 PM] Chico: We are not equal, but we should be treated fairly.
[12:01:44 PM] Chico: Equal fairness.
[12:02:14 PM] silent.ghost80: actually im a fan of reputation systems on a forum
[12:02:16 PM] Chico: Our own ignorance doesn't help either.
[12:02:24 PM] silent.ghost80: you're then judged by your actions
[12:03:04 PM] silent.ghost80: you have a rep in real life whether you want it or not
[12:03:04 PM] Chico: Sociopaths can play that game too, unfortunately.
[12:03:34 PM] silent.ghost80: so we put things in the system to hang them up then they become apparent
[12:03:55 PM] Chico: I'm all for that.
[12:04:10 PM] Chico: 1. Identify the sociopaths.
[12:04:43 PM] Chico: The how is the hard part.
[12:05:01 PM] silent.ghost80: well wed have to go into the psychology of it
[12:05:10 PM] Chico: (rofl)
[12:05:14 PM] Chico: Ya.
[12:05:23 PM] silent.ghost80: im sure theres anti socipathic tactics out there
[12:05:56 PM] Chico: Yes, I've been trying to learn them and teach them (the tactics).
[12:06:42 PM] silent.ghost80: dr. phils baiters comes to mind lol
[12:06:48 PM] silent.ghost80: (cwl)
[12:07:13 PM] Chico: Not familiar with that (don't watch TV).
[12:07:28 PM] Chico: I've seen Dr. Phil, but not much.
[12:07:40 PM] Chico: If it's TV, it's suspect.
[12:07:52 PM] silent.ghost80: i dont watch him but i caught a promo for his book
[12:08:16 PM] silent.ghost80: it help you identify the people in life that hold you up and leech off you
[12:08:21 PM] Chico: If it's promo, it's suspect. I'm repeating myself...
[12:08:35 PM] silent.ghost80: yeah
[12:08:47 PM] Chico: Ah, parasites. Like sociopaths.
[12:09:04 PM] Chico: He may be onto something then.
[12:09:21 PM] silent.ghost80:
[12:09:29 PM] silent.ghost80: 2 min clip explains it
[12:09:30 PM] Chico: Depends on what they are holding you up against.
[12:09:44 PM] Chico: Looking...
[12:11:06 PM] Chico: He's talking sociopaths...
[12:11:21 PM] silent.ghost80: i know im saying he has a system bro
[12:11:36 PM] silent.ghost80: fucking dr phil of all ppl
[12:11:52 PM] silent.ghost80: (rofl)
[12:11:58 PM] Chico: What's he calling "these people"? What label?
[12:12:12 PM] silent.ghost80: baiters
[12:12:28 PM] silent.ghost80: back stabbers liars ect
[12:12:36 PM] silent.ghost80: acronym
[12:13:28 PM] Chico: We need a word we can all agree on. Why not use "sociopath"?
[12:13:41 PM] silent.ghost80: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIx4nZWvxkE
[12:13:55 PM] silent.ghost80: it might be too broad
[12:13:56 PM] Chico: And then describe them as baiters.
[12:14:32 PM] Chico: But that's exactly what he is talking about. There's no difference between baiters and sociopaths, is there?
[12:14:50 PM] silent.ghost80: no
[12:14:57 PM] silent.ghost80: but its in a book he wrote
[12:15:24 PM] silent.ghost80: so he probably wanted his own buzz words
[12:16:08 PM] Chico: In that way, he does a disservice. Kind of keeps us divided in a way, by using different terminology.
[12:16:22 PM] Chico: Branding it to himself.
[12:16:28 PM] silent.ghost80: i dont think it would be intentional
[12:16:29 PM] Chico: A bit sociopathic.
[12:16:45 PM] silent.ghost80: takes one to know one chico lmao
[12:16:53 PM] silent.ghost80: j/k
[12:16:54 PM] Chico: Probably not. More like a function of our societal brainwashing.
[12:17:02 PM] Chico: Not intentional.
[12:17:31 PM] Chico: No joke, actually. There is some truth to that.
[12:17:33 PM] silent.ghost80: i can go with that (brainwashing)
[12:17:56 PM] silent.ghost80: so again you saw it in your self
[12:18:07 PM] Chico: Getting inside a sociopath's head requires some relationship to sociopathy.
[12:19:06 PM] Chico: All sociopathic tendencies are in us to some degree. The degree is critical. What we have that makes the difference is empathy.
[12:19:32 PM] Chico: Empathy changes the balance completely. Or the misbalance.
[12:19:55 PM] silent.ghost80: too much empathy is servitude
[12:20:01 PM] Chico: Agreed.
[12:20:08 PM] Chico: Balance is still required.
[12:20:29 PM] silent.ghost80: im a fan of any assertive philosophy (sorry)
[12:20:44 PM] Chico: What's that?
[12:20:47 PM] Sam Hunter: [12:46:31 PM] silent: mostly all he does it try to explain eastern thinking to western ppl
<<<
[12:20:51 PM] Sam Hunter: yep
[12:22:21 PM] Sam Hunter: and from my observation, the west is where most of the sickness seems to exist... and that easily can be linked to the materialistic lifestyle which - based on my observations seems far more prevalent amongst a society dominated by the world view of materialism
[12:23:07 PM] Sam Hunter: therefore, its my opinion that dealing with the symptom alone (like western medicine) is not going to produce any solution
[12:23:13 PM] Chico: I mostly agree, Sam.
[12:23:22 PM] Sam Hunter: it will just change the form the problem manifests
[12:23:29 PM] Sam Hunter: awesome
[12:23:40 PM] Sam Hunter: yet without arresting the symptom
[12:23:49 PM] Sam Hunter: just like alcoholism...
[12:24:15 PM] Sam Hunter: it will be far harder to deal with the underlying reasons for this sick society
[12:25:05 PM] Chico: The West is more unbalanced than the more established East. But the East is not perfect by any means. I don't think they've managed sociopaths properly either.
[12:25:20 PM] Sam Hunter: agree
[12:25:27 PM] Sam Hunter: I see this as a global problem
[12:25:35 PM] Chico: It is. A human problem.
[12:25:59 PM] Chico: A problem of human mind. A problem of psychology.
[12:26:11 PM] Sam Hunter: it does seem to me that the west represents the most runaway malignancy of this problem
[12:26:22 PM] Chico: Ya, probably so.
[12:26:36 PM] Chico: Runaway is right.
[12:26:48 PM] silent.ghost80: us evil white ppl started the human blood sacrifice
[12:26:51 PM] Sam Hunter: To me - the psychology is also where the symptoms reside
[12:27:02 PM] silent.ghost80: lol
[12:27:09 PM] Sam Hunter: my psychology is more a result of my world view
[12:27:23 PM] Sam Hunter: it does not create my world view
[12:27:29 PM] Chico: I see world view as a symptom.
[12:27:43 PM] silent.ghost80: globalism is the poison
[12:27:45 PM] Sam Hunter: we see it completely opposite then
[12:27:51 PM] Chico: The psychology is the initial source.
[12:28:34 PM] Sam Hunter: to me, something lays beneath the psychology which, if not addressed, nothing will change
[12:28:40 PM] Sam Hunter: thats my opinion
[12:28:43 PM] Sam Hunter: nothing more
[12:29:04 PM] Chico: Why do sociopaths have a very different and consistent world view, different from non-sociopaths?
[12:29:20 PM] Chico: It would appear that their psychology is responsible, no?
[12:30:07 PM] Sam Hunter: well, I am able to draw one significant correlation - I have never experienced a sociopath that doesn't have a materialistic world view
[12:30:28 PM] Sam Hunter: one that sees "an objective reality" outside
[12:30:28 PM] silent.ghost80: sam have you even been fucke d
[12:30:35 PM] Chico: Something does lie beneath the psychology, but can we get at it? Are we intelligent enough to handle the complexity?
[12:30:43 PM] silent.ghost80: if so you have endured a sociopath
[12:30:44 PM] Sam Hunter: Hi Mark
[12:30:51 PM] Sam Hunter: I didn't understand the question
[12:30:59 PM] Sam Hunter: have I ever been fucked?
[12:31:06 PM] silent.ghost80: as in fuckedover
[12:31:08 PM] Sam Hunter: ahhh yes I have
[12:31:12 PM] Sam Hunter: in fact many
[12:31:13 PM] silent.ghost80: lol
[12:31:21 PM] silent.ghost80: his eyes wide
[12:31:22 PM] Sam Hunter: every one had a very materialistic based world view
[12:31:35 PM] Sam Hunter: saw themselves as the center of their own universe
[12:31:52 PM] Chico: Fucked -- bad choice of terminology.
[12:31:54 PM] Sam Hunter: seemed to see everyone and everything else almost solipsistically
[12:32:05 PM] Sam Hunter: and also - have experienced variations of that
[12:32:19 PM] Sam Hunter: its OK I just wanted to make sure how you meant it
[12:32:20 PM] Chico: Sam, does that mean materialism is the problem? I don't think so.
[12:32:28 PM] silent.ghost80: [2:31:54 PM] Chico: Fucked -- bad choice of terminology. <<< yeah but sam will never forget now and it was funny as hell
[12:32:34 PM] Chico: (y)
[12:33:31 PM] Sam Hunter: I see materialism as one of if not the leading underlying problem, yes ... yet I also have come to know a few materialists who are less problematic as they have accepted the empathy that screams forth from within them
[12:33:57 PM] Sam Hunter: I have never met someone grounded in "idealism" that is in any way sociopathic
[12:34:24 PM] Sam Hunter: as that cannot even happen for someone who is grounded in idealism and who consciously is aware of it
[12:34:27 PM] silent.ghost80: chico is right any person in charge of is probably sociopathic
[12:35:00 PM] Chico: I agree that lack of empathy nails you to the material perspective, but that doesn't mean there is a problem per se with the material aspect of the world.
[12:35:03 PM] silent.ghost80: that fact they sought that position proves it
[12:35:39 PM] Sam Hunter: I also agree with that Chico, as for example, I see you as an exception to that
[12:35:54 PM] Sam Hunter: This I have been glad to experience
[12:36:07 PM] Chico: (whew)
[12:36:15 PM] Chico: (rofl)
[12:37:08 PM] Sam Hunter: haha
[12:37:09 PM] Chico: I see your rejection of materialism as an over-reaction. It's not without merit, it's just an exaggeration.
[12:37:27 PM] Sam Hunter: my rejection?
[12:37:37 PM] Sam Hunter: I am confused
[12:37:44 PM] Chico: Well, your holding up of consciousness as superior.
[12:37:56 PM] Chico: As the be-all.
[12:38:27 PM] Sam Hunter: ohhh well I am only speaking for myself... I have studied this specific subject for dozens of years and materialism (to me) is voodoo
[12:38:32 PM] Sam Hunter: it doesn't hold up
[12:38:39 PM] Chico: I think, like Rose, that there is a necessary dependency there, a balance.
[12:39:09 PM] Sam Hunter: I wouldn't have to balance them
[12:39:09 PM] Chico: Neither holds up by itself.
[12:39:17 PM] Sam Hunter: its not a matter of that
[12:39:31 PM] Sam Hunter: its a matter of which is fundamental
[12:39:35 PM] Sam Hunter: for me at least
[12:39:54 PM] Sam Hunter: I don't deny I am sitting in the chair I am sitting in
[12:40:08 PM] Sam Hunter: but the chair exists within consciousness
[12:40:12 PM] Sam Hunter: to me at least
[12:40:34 PM] Chico: That's like the chicken and egg dilemma. It is the wrong question, far oversimplified.
[12:40:50 PM] silent.ghost80: matter is important lol
[12:40:56 PM] Sam Hunter: it can be if someone cannot make up their own mind which came first
[12:41:10 PM] Chico: There was no first.
[12:41:23 PM] Sam Hunter: I did and in fact, when I did, I became a much better person from the viewpoint of all others
[12:41:30 PM] Sam Hunter: their experience of me was enhanced
[12:41:36 PM] silent.ghost80: i saw a hen cross the road to get to a cock the other day
[12:41:48 PM] Sam Hunter: and since this was my own, direct experience, I believe this can be the case for others
[12:42:04 PM] Sam Hunter: and the more who have this experience, the less we have sociopathy
[12:42:06 PM] Sam Hunter: IMO
[12:42:29 PM] Sam Hunter: its just my opinion yet I am very strong in this opinion
[12:42:45 PM] silent.ghost80: the egg came before the chicken because what ever it was before it was a chicken laid eggs
[12:43:03 PM] Sam Hunter: sociopathy is clearly a symptom of a world far over emphasizing the material - again... just my opinion
[12:43:22 PM] silent.ghost80: so we got the proverbial chicken out of the way
[12:43:29 PM] Sam Hunter: amen
[12:44:01 PM] Sam Hunter: I think Chico's raising of awareness cannot be underestimated for its import
[12:44:11 PM] silent.ghost80: of course
[12:44:32 PM] Sam Hunter: I also think Chico's idea is awesome IF and this is a big IF... if somehow we could implement it
[12:44:38 PM] silent.ghost80: i was a little behind in exchange there lol
[12:45:00 PM] Sam Hunter: yet there's a big problem when it comes to actual responsibility
[12:45:34 PM] Sam Hunter: between the materialistic WV (and its implications) and the idealistic WV (and its implications)
[12:46:50 PM] Sam Hunter: and that resides in the question of... does consciousness come come forth for some unexplainable reason from people's brains OR is consciousness filtered by the brain to represent individuation...
[12:47:05 PM] silent.ghost80: wrong
[12:47:24 PM] silent.ghost80: its the entani (antenna?) on your skin cells
[12:47:26 PM] Sam Hunter: for if the former, yes, you can ID and round up (restrict... whatever) the sociopaths
[12:47:36 PM] silent.ghost80: pick up your wave length
[12:48:10 PM] silent.ghost80: thats what the guy that invented stem cell research said anyway
[12:48:10 PM] Chico: Sam: "sociopathy is clearly a symptom of a world far over emphasizing the material"
Chico: I see the over-emphasis of the material being a symptom of the disease, which is the psychology of the sociopath who gains our positions of leadership and influence.
[12:48:17 PM] Sam Hunter: if the latter... an individuated "spirit" (just to use an expression) may be where the sociopathic bent resides and that cannot be treated at the level of a physical, single life
[12:48:46 PM] Sam Hunter: read my last statement of a.) or b.)
[12:48:54 PM] Sam Hunter: that's the dilemma for me
[12:49:45 PM] Sam Hunter: and so the question really boils down to what, in fact, is the true nature of reality
[12:50:43 PM] Sam Hunter: for if that isn't come upon... then we have two different type of "good guys" who see the potential problem quite differently as well as what might be the best ultimate, overall... final solution(s)
[12:50:55 PM] silent.ghost80: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwOvg1rJfcM
[12:53:02 PM] Chico: Thumbs up to Lipton.
[12:53:19 PM] Chico: Challenging the dogma.
[12:54:54 PM] silent.ghost80: so my question to you chico is would be make some kind of anti sociopath addon for the forum with dr. phil bs work
[12:55:13 PM] Chico: We should be putting this all in the forum so everyone can benefit / suffer.
[12:56:01 PM] silent.ghost80: im sure rose will put it there and thats fine with me
[12:56:13 PM] Sam Hunter: Lipton's view works hand in hand with my opinion that a massive shift in world view would indeed weed out sociopathy naturally
[12:56:26 PM] Chico: An anti-sociopath add-on to the forum? I like the idea. I thought that was what I was, to some extent.
[12:56:51 PM] Sam Hunter: I don't see you as an add-on
[12:56:58 PM] Chico: But yeah, let's package up the essence of Chico and distribute it.
[12:57:04 PM] Chico: I think Gemma is ready to do that.
[12:57:28 PM] Sam Hunter: when i came back, I saw Rose and you as inPHInet... as she invited you if I recall correctly
[12:57:31 PM] silent.ghost80: well we could colab or i could fork
[12:57:44 PM] Chico: fork?
[12:57:46 PM] silent.ghost80: with permission of course
[12:58:10 PM] Sam Hunter: I am ok anything I write in this conversation would be posted
[12:58:15 PM] Sam Hunter: completely ok
[12:58:17 PM] Chico: Oh, sure, permission granted. I need no compensation.
[12:58:21 PM] silent.ghost80: sorry think like tree viewer a fork or branch
[12:58:54 PM] Sam Hunter: one thing I have learned not to question... its Chico's heart
[12:59:00 PM] Chico: Get the info out there however possible. Use Dr. Phil as well.
[12:59:13 PM] Sam Hunter:
[12:59:33 PM] Chico: Question everything, even Chico's heart. It can't hurt.
[12:59:34 PM] silent.ghost80: (idea)
[1:00:06 PM] Sam Hunter: I don't
[1:00:23 PM] silent.ghost80: see thats weird to me i dont question ppl hearts i ask them questions
[1:00:23 PM] Chico: It's not my battle. It's our battle, all of humanity's.
[1:00:28 PM] Sam Hunter: if I question everything all the time, I don't ever enjoy life
[1:00:32 PM] Sam Hunter: I like risks
[1:00:47 PM] Chico: I'm just the messenger, the one who gets attacked and maybe destroyed.
[1:00:51 PM] Sam Hunter: even when I end up on disappointed
[1:01:26 PM] silent.ghost80: ill give you this chico Ive watch you stand your ground for years
[1:01:29 PM] Chico: I'm no stranger to risks. Have you seen me flying off the Russian swing?
[1:01:36 PM] Sam Hunter: he sure does
[1:01:46 PM] Sam Hunter: haha
[1:02:03 PM] Sam Hunter: I was able to talk with Chico in three or four video chats
[1:02:26 PM] silent.ghost80: you should consider your self privledged
[1:02:34 PM] Sam Hunter: that's all I needed to feel there were no more questions needed from me
[1:02:44 PM] Sam Hunter: so I no longer question that part
[1:02:50 PM] silent.ghost80: ive talked to almost every one but chico
[1:02:54 PM] Sam Hunter: ahhhh
[1:02:58 PM] Sam Hunter: welllll....
[1:03:03 PM] Sam Hunter: whatcha waiting for?
[1:03:05 PM] Sam Hunter: haha
[1:03:24 PM] Sam Hunter:
[1:03:26 PM] silent.ghost80: wta you guys on google hangout or something
[1:03:28 PM] Chico: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_DO5Anb_yM
[1:03:31 PM] Chico: Risks.
[1:04:31 PM] Chico: That's me at 1:03. I'm retired now.
[1:04:56 PM] Sam Hunter: wowowow
[1:04:56 PM] Chico: We have to take risks as we grow.
[1:05:05 PM] Sam Hunter: that's so cool
[1:05:15 PM] Sam Hunter: I wouldnt be caught doing that though!
[1:05:21 PM] silent.ghost80: is that pool full of foam and the just left the water in
[1:05:26 PM] Sam Hunter: I don't challenge physics
[1:05:27 PM] silent.ghost80: ?
[1:05:29 PM] Sam Hunter: just sociopaths
[1:05:42 PM] Sam Hunter: :$
[1:05:44 PM] silent.ghost80: that should be a bumper sticker
[1:05:51 PM] Sam Hunter: haha
[1:06:13 PM] Sam Hunter: wow man... my wife is looking at me like "don't get any ideas"
[1:06:22 PM] Chico: "I don't challenge physics, just sociopaths." I want one.
[1:06:30 PM] Sam Hunter: indeed
[1:07:34 PM] Chico: That was a great group of genuine people. The most challenging flyer, Bo, died doing what he loved.
[1:08:15 PM] Chico: It was a blow to us all. He was the spirit of adventure.
[1:08:26 PM] silent.ghost80: https://gyazo.com/dde44ea2147d64f1957214222db36696
[1:08:34 PM] silent.ghost80: oh your in that
[1:08:48 PM] Chico: (rofl)
[1:09:31 PM] Chico: I was Mr. SafetyMan, trying to make sure no one would get hurt.
[1:09:51 PM] Sam Hunter: wow
[1:10:02 PM] Chico: The empathy was present even then.
[1:10:45 PM] Sam Hunter: I really feel like printing a few hundred of those bumper stickers
[1:10:46 PM] Chico: I always supervised setting up the mats and making sure everything met my approval.
[1:10:53 PM] Chico: "No injuries"
[1:10:57 PM] Sam Hunter: thats cool man
[1:11:14 PM] silent.ghost80: you know how some people cant spin or turn in the air
[1:11:16 PM] Sam Hunter: yet your friend died doing something challenging like this?
[1:11:19 PM] Chico: We did it every Wednesday night for years.
[1:11:24 PM] silent.ghost80: im one of them
[1:12:17 PM] Chico: Yeah, practicing a 2&3/4 front flip off the trampoline into the foam pit. Clipped his head on the edge of the pit and broke his neck.
[1:12:31 PM] Chico: Disaster.
[1:12:48 PM] Sam Hunter: damn... but hey.... he took the risk KNOWING the risks
[1:13:16 PM] Sam Hunter: whereas with the sociopaths... most empaths can't fathom the risks
[1:13:18 PM] silent.ghost80: no its cause its a fucking trampoline
[1:13:25 PM] Chico: We corrected the pit edge after that to avoid another disaster like that. Live and learn.
[1:13:29 PM] Sam Hunter: and the sociopaths use that too... against them
[1:13:32 PM] silent.ghost80: those thing hurt and kill ppl all the time
[1:13:55 PM] Chico: Trampolines are dangerous, but so are sociopaths. You have to manage them.
[1:13:56 PM] Sam Hunter: its sad man its like those people that use those flying suits
[1:14:14 PM] Sam Hunter: one little mistake or unexpected wind current, etc and boom adios
[1:14:37 PM] Chico: I agree, Sam. I've given up a number of risky things because of that realization.
[1:15:02 PM] Sam Hunter: that to me is empathy in action
[1:15:03 PM] Chico: Hang gliding, car racing, etc.
[1:15:07 PM] Sam Hunter: as we need you
[1:15:13 PM] Sam Hunter: we need people like you
[1:15:32 PM] Chico: We need all of us.
[1:15:44 PM] Sam Hunter: y
[1:15:46 PM] silent.ghost80: skydiving on psychodelics
[1:15:52 PM] Chico: We just have to get properly organized.
[1:15:53 PM] silent.ghost80: you know the usual
[1:16:14 PM] silent.ghost80: indeed!
[1:17:19 PM] Chico: And properly educated.
[1:17:31 PM] Chico: Proper = balance.
[1:17:47 PM] silent.ghost80: you sound like sidartha
[1:17:57 PM] silent.ghost80:
[1:18:01 PM] Chico: Trampolines help you learn balance, and they can kill you. Pros and cons.
[1:18:26 PM] Chico: Same with everything.
[1:18:46 PM] silent.ghost80: smoking ciggerettes can kill you or stop you from going on a homocidal rampage
[1:18:46 PM] Chico: Looking up sidhartha....
[1:19:20 PM] silent.ghost80: siddhartha
[1:19:59 PM] silent.ghost80: You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
[1:20:23 PM] silent.ghost80: No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path.
[1:20:33 PM] Sam Hunter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha
[1:20:53 PM] Chico: Haven't read it myself. Too much to read, so little time.
[1:20:57 PM] silent.ghost80: We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.
[1:21:44 PM] Sam Hunter: Siddhartha is another name of/for Gautama Buddha
[1:21:59 PM] Sam Hunter: and there is the Hess book yes
[1:22:04 PM] silent.ghost80: siddhartha gautama
[1:22:04 PM] Chico: I like the quotes, Mark.
[1:22:22 PM] silent.ghost80: the first buddah
[1:22:35 PM] Chico: Many can help us save ourselves, however.
[1:22:39 PM] Sam Hunter: when I arrived in Curacao... three days ago, my wife gave me a gift...
[1:22:51 PM] Chico: Your wife is a gift.
[1:22:56 PM] Sam Hunter: a small head statue of the Buddha
[1:23:21 PM] silent.ghost80: well fuck whats better than a gift
[1:23:24 PM] Chico: But yeah, even better.
[1:23:25 PM] Sam Hunter: what's weird is I never even spoke with her about Buddhism in our 14 years together
[1:23:26 PM] silent.ghost80: a gift giving gift
[1:23:37 PM] Chico: That's it!
[1:23:45 PM] Sam Hunter: y
[1:23:48 PM] Chico: Perfect.
[1:24:26 PM] Chico: I am pleased for you, Sam.
[1:24:51 PM] silent.ghost80: However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them?
[1:25:03 PM] silent.ghost80: the avalon crew should read this one
[1:27:37 PM] silent.ghost80: “I have always believed, and I still believe, that whatever good or bad fortune may come our way we can always give it meaning and transform it into something of value.”
[1:29:29 PM] silent.ghost80: if im spamming too much or something i aploligise
[1:30:08 PM] Chico: Gotta break and find some balance. I appreciate the discussion. Thank you Mark and Sam.
[1:30:48 PM] silent.ghost80: likewise
[1:50:54 PM] Sam Hunter: Oooops, yes thanks Chico, Mark... was on the balcony and sorta drifted off
[1:51:00 PM] Sam Hunter: video coming out soon
=====
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Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2016
