Hello All

Discussion in 'Φ QANON & POLITICS' started by david, Jul 8, 2016.

  1. Chicodoodoo

    Chicodoodoo Truth-seeker

    We are all on different wavelengths, Rose. That's a given. That's why we have to discuss things in the open, on the forum, for example.

    Thanks. That's why I asked for correction and clarification. But I'm still not understanding what it is you have against Peter Joseph. You also made no corrections to my point regarding your feeling about capitalism, so can we say I summarized that correctly? I really would like to understand the source of your dismissal of Peter Joseph.

    Yes. Yes. No. Yes. No.

    Are you of the belief that Peter Joseph is a sociopath much like Stephen?
  2. Rose

    Rose Φ

  3. Chicodoodoo

    Chicodoodoo Truth-seeker

    How about telling us how this video affects your feelings towards Peter Joseph? You are still not giving us anything to illustrate the negative vibe you apparently feel for him.

    Here's one from me to you. At about the 10:00 mark, Peter claims he is a communicator who wants to "write and produce media that can change people's minds". Mind control? Brain-washing? No! "Propaganda style persuasion techniques"? It could easily be mistaken for that, but that's not it either. It's education. The intent is to educate. The intent is not to deceive or manipulate.

    At 18:20, Peter says he wants to see "global change at the social level". The ruling sociopaths want to see that too. The difference is that the ruling sociopaths want a change that benefits them (the 1%), while Peter wants a change that benefits the vast majority (the 99%). That is why I have seen Peter Joseph, from the very beginning when I first saw the Zeitgeist video, as a genuinely positive agent of change, a change that will counter the evil that the ruling sociopaths deliver to the bulk of humanity.
  4. Chicodoodoo

    Chicodoodoo Truth-seeker

    Continuing on with commentary of the Peter Joseph interview...

    At 27:43, Peter Joseph says, "We need to create thinkers, not followers. The entire political / social system is based upon people following, and that's a great disaster." That is very similar to my observations about how the world works. Peter and I are seeing the same things, even though we are coming at it from different directions.

    At 44:12, Peter says, "There's a reason why there's been an empire throughout all of human existence. These are social patterns that have a system result. We have to break this system or it's going to destroy us." Peter doesn't go into what that reason is, but I do. It's the psychology of sociopaths, the very type of people who always end up leading humanity! The social patterns are the dynamic that exists between the organized sociopaths and the trusting non-sociopaths. That dynamic does indeed have a very damaging system result. And it will destroy us if we don't learn to manage it.
  5. Chicodoodoo

    Chicodoodoo Truth-seeker

    Final comments for the Peter Joseph interview:

    At 1:07:13, Peter Joseph says, "The military in its organization is brilliant, but its intention is absolutely awful."

    It's just like sociopaths -- their ability to deceive and manipulate in the pursuit of power and control over others is brilliant, but their intention is absolutely awful.

    The military is modeled on the sociopathic mindset of hierarchy, lack of empathy, inequality, reward and punishment, and the mindless pursuit of power and control.

    At 1:10:00, "We keep replacing the same systems with just variations of the prior system. The next transformation should move into a much more dramatic place that is unlike anything the world has ever seen."

    Yes! The world has never seen sociopaths identified and disqualified from positions of power and control. Once it happens, it will be a totally new world, for the first time in thousands of years!
  6. Rose

    Rose Φ

    I have no negative feelings towards Peter personally. As with OhWell, I have great respect for Joseph's talents. I object to the promotion of anti-capitalism propaganda wrapped in unrealistic utopian ideals. I disagree with his belief that we are "Mere Agents of a Group Mind", an idea I believe has the potential to harm others. Neither of these things affect my feelings towards him personally any more than my disagreements with some of your beliefs affect my feelings toward you personally. Please do not continue to minimize me by suggesting my objections are nothing more than emotionalism.

    My original objection has many more than one dimension. Any one comment Joseph has made has very little bearing whether I believe it, or not. I am still in the process of study and reconsideration. This may take me some time. I realize, although you are quoting me, your supportive argument for Peter's work ia directed toward all reading here, not just me. I will continue to read your comments and respond further on this topic when I have had time to thoroughly re-consider and evaluate on my own.
  7. Chicodoodoo

    Chicodoodoo Truth-seeker

    I approve of exposing the damage capitalism inflicts on humanity, and I also approve of exploring solutions. The difference in our perspectives while observing the same thing is quite fascinating to me, and I enjoy exploring that phenomenon.

    That's the point, actually. By accentuating our naturally existing "group mind" tendencies via their propaganda, mind control, brainwashing, and social programming, the ruling sociopaths have already greatly harmed us! They continue to ramp up the damage that they do. That's what Peter Joseph is trying to get us to recognize.

    And yet they do. Nearly all people have emotions and are subject to them. We emotionally feel things, and that's normal. It helps to investigate and understand why we feel as we do.

    Good timing, now we have an appropriate example to work with. You feel "hurt" and say I am "minimizing" you because I suggested you have an emotional bias regarding capitalism. I feel "hurt" that you would think I have any intent to deliberately put you down or disrespect you. So we both have reactions that have emotional components. From my perspective, bias is always emotional, and I too have biases. Though I was once heavily biased in favor of capitalism due to my so-called education, I am now biased against capitalism because of my own research into sociopathy. Yes, there is an emotional component to my bias because I am angry at the ruling sociopaths for economically enslaving humanity (me included) using capitalism! And I know the source of my emotional anger and my bias -- it's empathy. I hate unfairness, injustice, and inequality, all because I have empathy. Sociopaths don't care about fairness, justice, and equality, all because they lack empathy. Their bias is noticeably unemotional; "it's just business", remember? By pointing out your emotional biases, and mine, I am not minimizing either of us. Nor am I singing our praises. I'm just pointing out the facts. Just as I point out the facts about sociopaths and their lack of empathy.

    Interestingly enough, I think you are biased in favor of capitalism for the same reasons I am now biased against it. Like me, you hate unfairness, injustice, and inequality. You feel capitalism works to promote fairness, justice, and equality. I too was raised to think that way, like every "good" American. Unfortunately, that view of capitalism is not true, it is propaganda. We were brainwashed.
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  8. Rose

    Rose Φ

    Today's research...
    Peter Joseph of The Zeitgeist Movement Interview,
    Athens Greece, March 26th 2016

  9. Chicodoodoo

    Chicodoodoo Truth-seeker

    While Rose was watching the video above, I was watching the video that follows:

    Who is Peter Joseph?" Full Version - A Mini-Doc by Charles Robinson

    It was particularly striking at times, and I noted those times:

    19:40 "Those that have something against me for the things that I talk about want to find anything they can to try to make me look like I'm hiding something or I have ulterior motives. And I expect that."

    20:00 "I'm constantly interacting, putting myself out there. I have nothing to hide."

    20:34 "Anyone who thinks that I do what I do for notoriety reasons or monetary reasons or anything associated with self-interest has a lot to learn."

    I was reminded of Rose trying to "get the goods" on Peter Joseph when Peter said these three things. "Getting the goods" on someone is a "kill the messenger" type thing. Later, Peter delved into his anti-capitalist perspective that Rose finds distasteful but that I agree with, since ownership is primarily a sociopathic tool of power and control. Sharing is the empathetic way.

    38:54 "The idea of ownership is controlled restriction. Ownership is simply there really for those at the top to make sure no one can interfere with the fact that they control mostly everything."

    42:51 "Social interest needs to become self-interest. In other words, when I invent something, that is given to everyone, for them to improve upon and to utilize. That invention isn't hoarded through patents and trademarks, it's given to everyone. In turn, what that means is that every time anyone else invents something or creates something or has an idea, that comes to me too. Suddenly, humanity becomes a singular organism, it becomes a working system."

    43:49 "I believe that a true spiritual awakening will be when people start to realize that they have to begin to work together, they have to share their resources, they have to begin to understand that they live off of this planet, that they get their light from the sun, that their energy sources that are natural and abundant that could be made available to all, that we share everything, that we work together, because that's what the system demands, that the Earth demands this, that the species demands this, for our survival. And that will be a spiritual awakening if you want to give it that type of term."

    47:24 "One way or another, we will end up in a system that's not based on money as we know it today. Why? Because that will be realized in the future by historians as the total and pivotal cause of the destruction of civilization as we know it."

    What really grabs my attention is how Peter and I arrive at nearly identical conclusions even though we are coming at these problems from different directions. The reason for that is that Peter has focused on the effects, whereas I have focused on the cause. The cause is the psychology of sociopaths. Once you understand the cause, the effects are predictable.

    48:44 "I hope everybody out there will understand that either we change, or we die."

    From my perspective, we either identify and manage sociopathy, or the sociopaths will eventually lead us into self-destruction.
    • listening listening x 1
  10. Rose

    Rose Φ

    That comment says more about you than me, Chico.
    Thank you for that.

    I still have an open mind, I am still researching, and have not yet reached my final mind set.
    What "goods" are you referring to in particular?
    What leads you to believe that, loooooool?

    Did some random "tidbits" I threw out affect you in some way?