Discussion in 'Φ Know Yourself' started by Chicodoodoo, Dec 30, 2015.
It seems nobody wants to hear me talk about sociopaths. When I do, I'm often accused of being a broken record, or an attention whore, or a sociopath. It's true that over the last ten years I have become more and more focused on sociopaths. Like the little kid in the movie The Sixth Sense who admits to Bruce Willis "I see dead people" (and eventually we learn that Bruce is one of those dead people), well... I see sociopaths. I seem to encounter them far more frequently than their proportion in the human population might suggest (estimated around 2%). Bill Ryan is one. Atticus too. Richard, Ross, Uncle Zook, andywight, IceCold... in fact, many stand-out characters in the forum world are sociopaths. In my naivety upon entering the forum world in January 2011, I had no idea that this was going to be the case. I thought I was dealing with "enlightened" people. Every revelation to the contrary along the way was somewhat shocking to me. And, surprise surprise, those people I eventually discovered to be sociopaths rarely wanted me to talk about sociopaths. They called me a broken record, or an attention whore, or a sociopath. Discrediting any talk about sociopaths was their common cause. It's part of their psychology to remain camouflaged, to avoid exposure, and to maintain their convincing facade. Talking about sociopaths doesn't serve their agenda.
Good! I'm opposed to their agenda. I don't want to be deceived by them. I don't want to be manipulated by them. I don't want to be controlled by them. And I don't want others to be either.
So I'm not a very good sociopath.
So let's talk about sociopaths. It's more important than we realize. And we shouldn't be shy about naming names. Netanyahu is one. Bill Clinton too. Kissinger, Brzezinski, Rumsfeld, Bush, Obama, Hillary, Trump... in fact, many stand-out characters in the real world are sociopaths. And, surprise surprise, they don't want us talking about sociopaths. That's why it's more important than we realize.
And that's why we need to talk about it.
Thank you so much for starting this thread.
I have always enjoyed your enlightenment on the topic of sociopathy.
Delighted you have arrived at InPHInet.
I struggle where to begin as I am shell shocked from this past year,
having experienced all of the following behaviors, and more, from Jekyll and Hyde personalities:
(Repost from Confessions)
1. They humiliate you, put you down, or make fun of you in front of other people.
2. They regularly demean or disregard your opinions, ideas, suggestions, or needs.
3. They use sarcasm or “teasing” to put you down or make you feel bad about yourself.
4. They accuse you of being “too sensitive” in order to deflect their abusive remarks.
5. They try to control you and treat you like a child.
6. They correct or chastise you for your behavior.
7. They belittle and trivialize you, your accomplishments, or your hopes and dreams.
8. They try to make you feel as though they are always right, and you are wrong.
9.They regularly point out your flaws, mistakes, or shortcomings.
10. They accuse or blame you of things you know aren’t true.
11. They are intolerant of any seeming lack of respect.
12. They make excuses for their behavior, try to blame others, and have difficulty apologizing.
13. The repeatedly cross your boundaries and ignore your requests.
14. They call you names, give you unpleasant labels, or make cutting remarks.
15. They are emotionally distant or emotionally unavailable most of the time.
16. They resort to pouting or withdrawal to get attention or attain what they want.
17. They don’t show you empathy or compassion.
18. They play the victim and try to deflect blame to you rather than taking personal responsibility.
19. They disengage or use neglect or abandonment to punish.
20. They invalidate or deny their emotionally abusive behavior when confronted.
21. They make subtle threats or negative remarks with the intent to frighten or control you.
I pose the question: How many sociopaths are in this conversation?
Then I doubt it's a stretch to say you've been dealing with sociopaths.
When sociopaths get together for a little meeting (or a little theater), they typically don't invite any non-sociopaths, unless those non-sociopaths are unquestionably well-controlled.
But yes, that conversation is a "Clash of the Titans" among forum sociopaths. It's a classic, very educational, and worthy of study if you wish to better understand what sociopaths are like.
I would also add that understanding sociopaths is critical to understanding the human world. They lead us, they set policy, and they control our demise. That applies to the microcosm of the forums and the macrocosm of the international arena. And therein lies the problem humanity must eventually solve. Failure to solve it means slavery at best, extinction at worst.
Why do sociopaths succeed? Why do they climb the hierarchy and become our leaders? Why is Bill Clinton still a political player? Why isn't he in jail serving a life term? Why is Bill Ryan still lording over hundreds of faithful, long-term Avalon members? Why do the women stand in line to be his "sweetheart" when every one of them is used, abused, and discarded? Why is it the same with Bill Clinton, who is supposedly married to Hillary? Why does Atticus/Houdini mesmerize his followers with absurd tales of pencils up his nether regions?
There are reasons for these things. They are the same reasons con-artists and countless "suckers" find each other. There is an interplay of human psychology between predator and prey. The prime instrument used by the predators is deception. The prime instrument used by the prey is trust. And that's how the dance begins. We all know how it ends.
Or do we?
There is a website called psychopathfree.com full of people who have been "run through the mill", meaning ground up into tiny bits, by psychopaths (Note: psychopaths and sociopaths are essentially the same thing). There is no shortage of victims posting at that site, and they all have similar experiences. How is it that they didn't know how their "dance with the devil" would end?
The answer, of course, is that they didn't know they were dancing with the devil. They were tricked.
I have a friend I've known for maybe six years. He is well known and seems to know everyone in town, as he deals with a vast array of people one-on-one in his day job. At night, he also works as an entertainer and is quite good at it. He is amazingly well informed about esoteric and alternate knowledge, and that was the common ground that initially drew us together. He was single and lived alone with a dog, but maybe a year ago he came by my house and introduced me to his new steady girlfriend, a woman he had been friends with in high school 30 years ago. She was a very pleasant woman, and I remember thinking how lucky he was to have found her.
A few months later, I stopped at his house to visit, but he was not home from work yet. She was there and said he would be home soon, so I should stay and wait. We chatted, and she started telling me that she was having problems with him and didn't know what to do or who to turn to. Since I was one of the friends he respected the most, she decided to query me to see if I could give her some insight into his puzzling behavior. What I heard in the next half-hour was a complete shock! As she listed the problem behaviors, I couldn't help but remark for nearly every one "That's how a sociopath behaves." Behind closed doors, my friend was apparently a sociopath, and I had never had an inkling that he was one!
After that, I started observing him more carefully, and I heard more stories from his girlfriend. Everything continued to confirm that he was a sociopath. Eventually, they asked me to informally "counsel" them, and I did, hoping to save their relationship. But the conclusion based on what I heard was unavoidable -- they were mismatched. He was indeed a sociopath (though I didn't tell him that), and she was in an abusive relationship that she was finding increasingly intolerable. The final straw for her was when an argument got physical and he assaulted her. Though she was essentially "addicted" to him and felt she couldn't leave, she realized where the pattern was leading and finally understood she would end up either a slave or dead. For his part, he was afraid a police report for assault would put his work in jeopardy and impact his income. So I convinced them both that it would be to their mutual benefit to call it quits, and they both agreed.
He's still my friend, and there is rarely any sign of sociopathy in his dealings with me. But I know this is just "the mask" sociopaths use to fit into the world of normal people. If it hadn't been for his girlfriend being at wit's end, I might have never known his true character. As for the girlfriend, I learned she had a history of being attracted to charming, controlling, "explosive" men. She was coming out of a long marriage to the only calm, caring, and unabusive man she had ever known, which was now just too humdrum for her. It was sad, really, that each was crippled by things outside their control. The only good that came out of it was that I had a better understanding of the human condition. And, that both of them got out of a disastrous relationship, of course!
Illuminating! Thank you, Shadowself!
Before I explain why, let me say the following. I am not here to make friends, or to make enemies, though I will surely do both (if memory serves). I am not here to gain followers either. I am here to learn. I am here to share what I learn. And I am here to expose lies and uncover truths. I may not succeed at doing these things, but that is my fundamental purpose. When I first started in the forums 5 years ago, at Avalon, I was just a learner. What I quickly learned is that Avalon was not a gathering of enlightened people, but a den of vipers. (In reality, it's some of both.) One of the first things I witnessed in real time was a member who was correctly standing up for his right to free speech. Bill Ryan promptly banned him. The hypocrisy gnawed at me. I saw other examples of that same hypocrisy. Eventually I rebelled against it and tried to expose it. And Bill Ryan banned me, naturally.
The truth was with you, and Stephen essentially lied. "Followers" is the correct word. That's exactly what the 18 and many others were doing -- following. Stephen was like the Pied Piper, playing the music necessary to lead the rats wherever he desired. But Stephen described all the rats as his "friends". They weren't, not to him anyway. They were rats to him. They were objects to be manipulated, pieces on the game board, stepping stones to greater power and control for Stephen. By calling them "friends", Stephen was effectively using their own empathy against them. Normal people have a normal understanding of what friends are. Sociopaths know that and use it to their advantage. They play on your emotions. If they are starting to lose control of you, you will hear them say, "I thought we were friends." Your empathy makes you recall what you felt like when a friend betrayed you, and you project that onto the sociopath, imagining that they feel hurt. They don't feel hurt. It's just a ploy. They are manipulating you. That's the difference between sociopaths and non-sociopaths. It is the difference between deceptive and genuine.
That's not exactly right. I am still friendly with him, as I try to be with everyone, but he is not really my friend. I now know not to follow him. If he tries to lead me anywhere, my guard is up. With a real friend, my guard wouldn't be up. I would be open, genuine, and vulnerable. But to be that way with a sociopath is to be manipulated and controlled. It's inevitable, because that is the dynamic between sociopaths and normal people when normal people are unaware.
that is awesome! can i use that quote ? lol
so in the spirit of learning i would like to share a very unique experience and perspective
ill try to get to the point
so i had real friends in the 18 and on team nexus that i talked to on a daily basis
i never had a problem with either group , both groups ended up always being suspicious of me even thou i tried my best not to be in the middle of the bs
the fucked part is most of the people were from the same group in a room on irc but now 2
(why did they get caught up wen some on drew an imaginary line between them?)
(are we compelled to be caught up in the moment by our own nature some times ?)
and now it got me thinking
is there any thing to be said about sociopathic behavior in the group mentality ?
I was thinking about this today.
I was drafting a response to your post in State of InPHInet where you talked about damage
I have never personally seen anything so....
(i can't think of the words. that was my problem before)
First of all, everything was thrown into a total state of confusion by Stephen and Rhiannon
Why? Often Spoken of Drug use? Paranoia?
Incorrectly entered passwords hair trigger believed to have been changed?
Or, more sinister, a tactic used as a chess move to achieve a desired end?
For one reason, or another, or a slurry of all, Lightest was slandered, falsely accused and strung up
In a witch hunt for a Hacker and Thief that reached a fevered pitch.
Mark was ostracized.
We were told not to speak to him.
And if we happened to say an innocent word anywhere
We were told to "SHUT THE FUCK UP" along with more unpleasantries
He demanded to be the only person speaking anywhere
We were told skype was dangerous and not to use it
They even had me believing the tale for a short time
But, I have known Lightest for five years.
I knew he would not have done what he was accused of.
We were told, as was the usual script for these incidents,
He had turned over all of his PROOF (We never, ever, saw any) to the authorities
And the police would immediately be over to Lightest's house to haul him to jail.
Lightest had not even responded to him it was so ludicrous.
And what do I find when I break ranks to speak to Lightest?
No commotion, No police, no proofs, no nothing
As is the case with the previous fictional witch hunt victims
He claimed to have done in:
All quite alive and well without incident.
One quite memorable moment of my life:
The night I snatched InPHInet back to my turf
I asked Mark what could be hanging up the installation
He told me one simple thing and the site was back online again
The very first thing I did was delete Stephen and Rhiannon
We both laughed and I breathed a long needed sigh of relief.
That is the truth as I currently know it. No one owns the truth. You are welcome to it.
I caught a lot of flak from Nexus members when I went over to Atticus1 to potentially contribute. I did so because I was genuinely onboard with the mission statement of the Atticus1 website. I think most Nexus members believed Stephen was a dangerous con-artist, like Bill Ryan, and that's why I caught so much flak. In hindsight, they were essentially right. Because of the Atticus1 mission statement and the group of 18, I wanted to give Stephen (and group) the benefit of the doubt and see if he was serious. Turned out he wasn't, and the 18 were clearly following his lead. I thought I had an important perspective to help correct the clearly visible flaws in the developing plan there, but I was brushed off like an irritant. I think this was because to Stephen, I was an irritant, one that could potentially derail his agenda. He figured that out right away when I wouldn't back-channel with him, which he wanted to do as soon as I joined. I insisted that we keep all communications public, because I knew sociopaths cannot succeed that way. They work their main magic one-on-one behind closed doors.
Yes, there's a lot to be said. I've been exploring this very idea in my home forum recently. I've come to realize that when sociopaths lead a group, they set the policy, they color the mindset, they shape the ethics, and the end result is that the whole group acts sociopathic, even though a large majority of that group is NOT sociopathic! You need look no further than the United States for evidence. We are a country of mostly good people, yet "America" (meaning our government led by sociopaths) regularly invades other sovereign nations for false reasons, occupies them, loots them, rapes them, and then claims to have saved them with democracy when no democracy is present there or even here. To the peoples of those countries, and even to neutral observers, we are indeed the Great Satan. Yet most Americans can't see it, having been tricked by their leaders into believing they are doing the right thing.
I believe the same thing happened at Atticus1. It also happened at Nexus (now apparently defunct), and it happens in regular cycles at Avalon. If I'm wrong, I invite others to set me straight.
In hindsight, I'm sure you can easily see that these are CONTROL mechanisms that sociopaths use.
"You listen to me. I do the talking, you do the listening. You are not to talk amongst yourselves behind my back."
And lies. Always lots of lies. Lying is the most expeditious way for sociopaths to control people.
The first step of the cure is detaching the parasite from your body (or in this case, your mind).
It took no hindsight to realize the control tactics.
Each were quite clear and noted as they occurred.
I allowed him to believe he was in control
To remain in a position to observe.
It was an educational experience.
InPHInet would not be here today.
Or be what it may be tomorrow
If not for this experience.
As I said somewhere before:
95% Dr. Jekyll ~ 5% Mr. Hyde
Averaged over a 5 year period
School is over now.
I imagine you feel like having a rest, but I'm going to suggest that school is not over. The teachers will change, the lessons will change, the agendas will change, your beliefs will change, and your receptiveness will change. But this universe is going to keep on serving up opportunities for learning. You can refuse them, of course. You can be selective, of course. But there is no end, as far as I can see.
I think that's a good thing.