A Place to discuss Magick.

For years I owned a shop that catered mostly to Pagans and the curious. Magick is an interesting subject and much has been written about it. I am only going to try and address this subject in an anecdotal way.
I personally will not be addressing High Magick for a number of reasons. I am sure I will refer to some of them later. For now I will just say that in my opinion, there is hardly ever a need for high Magick unless it's defensive, (even then, I am doubtful).
Ordinary practical Magick should suit almost everybody's needs. Sometimes it doesn't work. This would usually be when you are interfering with a bigger plan.
I like to look at Magick like a wind that we blow on a paper boat on water, to send it in the direction we want. You wouldn't want to use High Magick to blow a paper boat would you? Would you use a nuclear power plant to toast a marshmallow?
Also most Magick is not permanent, but only a tool to create the right conditions for success. (sometimes it IS permanent. A curse CAN last as long as a grudge).
I think that Practical, (low, folk) Magick, like real intuition is our natural Heaven granted sovereign right, and we have been conditioned from birth to weaken and relinquish it. Even now, when I pick up the Tarot, I flinch with the memories of all my conditioning. Because my relationship with my creator is and has always been intimate and intense, I am always sensitive to not disrupt it. This, above all else is what steers me magically and ethically.
I was about 16 the first time I consciously practiced "Magick". (There was an odd thing when I was 4 but I won't get into it here). Before that time my magick was mostly created through prayer. I had a rugged rugged time with churches when I was young, indeed was a Catholic, Protestant and Episcopalian, all before age 11.
I digress.
There was a man that I was very taken with at at age sixteen. Although I was persuasive, the man in question was at the very least, ambivalent at our union and had ended any romantic future between us.
He had dropped me off at a bus station and given me a dime to use a payphone, when I reached my destination. Since I had my own dime, I kept the one he gave me.
When I got home, I picked some sweet smelling plants, (I have no idea which now, but they were wild, we were not green thumbs) and put them in a small silver bowl that was used for candy. I placed the bowl of plant stuff next to my telephone.
Then I dropped the dime in it.
The man DID call me again, and for a short agonizing time, we saw each other. But in the end, it only served to drag out a painful reality that we were both born at the wrong times for the relationship to blossom.
It caused both of us great emotional torment, because truth be told, the man was not inclined to break the law or exploit the young. I think it was this very fact that made me quite frantic with need. He was the first man I had ever met that felt that way.
***Another VERY important fact that it took me time to understand. What I did to that man at age 16 was really unethical, and we both paid for it. It is NEVER OK to try and control someone else's behavior. Whenever I have done this, purposely or not, I was always bit in the ass for it. (Scar producing bites :D )

My point is...in retrospect, I could have avoided so much suffering had I left the issue alone. And I sure did not learn that lesson early.

 

Oh my goodness, an astute question; more than one even! I've never had one of those before,... most people's eyes just glaze over,.... I hope Nigella isn't offended that I wax,....

I'm not sure exactly what is meant by 'large number theory', but the metaphysics and characteristics of numbers definitely plays a role. The chain I use - a kusari fundo if you will - consists of 56 links and 2 locks, or 23 links to a side; I'm especially appreciative of prime numbers. Much of the dynamics of numbers are observable and represented through expressions of the tools or their functions. For example, there are three 'microscopic' tools (not literally microscopic, that's just the term I use) which are the three tools small enough to be carried on one's person (yes, at all times, except in my skivvies) and are to be utilized in immediate and unforeseen (but not unanticipated) circumstances to react to emergencies of circumstance. There are likewise 3 macroscopic tools which are greater reflections of the microscopic for use in circumstances that are more imminent and/or severely consequential; for the kusari fundo there is the kyoketsu shoge. In addition to the macro and microscopic tools, there are the extant tools which consist of their bodily equivalents; the right arm, left arm, and the body as a whole. When factored together, this creates a relationship of 3, 6, and 9, which was largely derived and encouraged by the work of Nickola Tesla. Other dynamics are present and represented, the 1 that is 2, the 4, the 3, the 7, and so on,... I'll get to that in time.

As Bruce Lee said, "Take what works for you and throw away the rest"; I took that and ran with it.

As far as quantum physics are concerned,.... My philosophy sees a 1:1 ratio where the dividing point is the threshold of the body, both parts being equal; the body and the universe. Additionally, I am cognizant of the idea that the universe exists both within and without, which is to say that the body is the point of balance between the two (one) universes. So in one way of looking at it, the body is at one end of the teeter-totter and the universe is at the other, but more accurately the body is the midpoint of the teeter-totter and the universe is at both sides.

As far as affecting or influencing quantum physics or manifestation, I tend to leave the manifestation of increasingly outward (distant from the body) phenomenon to the causal circumstances that surround it, excepting that I find the term "As Above, So Below" to be axiomatic to the point that it can be relied upon and predicted (if sufficient detail is available). Having said, there is heavy emphasis on the philosophy and strategy of chess, in that a given set of circumstances (layout of the board if you will) cannot occur without a preceding layout, which is determined by the manner in which all pieces move. So to say, 'current' circumstances are set in motion and made possible by previous circumstances in a continuing chain of causality. While life - as with chess - can seem to have an endless series of possible outcomes, that possibility is reliably diminished when one acclimates themselves to the method in which the individual pieces move. From there it is a matter of observing the multitude of potential outcomes and then planning to make whatever outcome that emerges beneficial or conducive. Much of this ideology can be seen expressed in the philosophy of the movie "Revolver".

The ability to turn most/any circumstance to one's advantage or preferred direction is particularly onerous however; it requires constant and relentless emergence in the individual. To this end, the Zonbi Nindo demands physiological, mental, and spiritual emergence at all available opportunity (just short of obsession); one cannot acrobatically dive-tuck-roll out of the way of an oncoming truck without the necessary skill and practice to accomplish such a task. Well, I suppose in the moment one might, but to so avoid two trucks in succession would require practice. With regards to this aspect, one is suited to casting off contemporary ideas of 'good enough' or 'sufficiency', or rather to far surpass them. In ancient greece for example, the olympians (olympic compeditors, not the 'gods') were not just magnificent physical specimens but also profound scholars, philosophers, and thinkers who sought to surpass themselves in not just their physical expression.

Further with regard to manifestation, there are a number of resources which adequately depict the precise number and type (if not the exact form) of 'moves' that the outward universe can 'play' against the individual; my personal favorite is the tarot. In this line of thinking, one can both effectively strategize the disposition - if not the direct actions - that would follow a given type of circumstance. So, while the individual may have their preferred type of circumstance and can foster the potential of it by their actions, they are not caught with their pants down if things don't go their way. I suppose that amounts to 'manifesting progression at a causal level', but I like to simplify it as being prepared for anything; this requires rigorous awareness and attention to detail, and refers back to the threefold emergence mentioned earlier. An example of this - workplace specific - is corporate policy with regard to forklifts; the industry standard says "watch out for lift trucks", "stop, look, listen", etc., whereas I operate from a stance of "pretend they're trying to get you, and plan accordingly". I know they're not, but I'm still the last person who will be in an accident.

To the last - "How did you get into it?; How did you become interested in this subject" - it certainly did not happen overnight! As a child (10-ish) I received a thorough (6-ish years) education in Chinese Kenpo, and my sensei was particularly (to the apt student) encouraging and instructive with regards to Ki generation and usage, shiatsu (theraputic and combative) awareness and manipulation, and 'outside the box' methodolgy. This and a 'Tao of Jeet Kune Do' manual had me up at wee hours practicing all manner of stretching, balance training, meditation, extinguishing candles without touching (combined form and energetic focus), and a number of other self-induced methods (I particularly liked the Mortal Kombat soundtrack, each track accompanying a different 'leg' of training). For philosophical and creative pursuits I read voraciously, though particularly preferred the "Forgotten Realms" series that focused on the character "Drizzt Do'Urden". In later years, I devoured the "Celestine Prophecy" and subsequent books, followed by the work of Carlos Castaneda, Don Miguel Ruiz, etc., all of which culminated and synthesized through first "the Book of High Magic" by Francis Melville, and later the work of Aleister Crowley.

Crowley in particular set me on a path of inquiry, from which I intuited that everything that I had learned/experienced - of vastly different subjects and topics - could be culminated and merged into a singular ideology and pursuit. Having been largely fascinated by the dynamic of the ninja (in contrast to the world of the Samurai in which they lived) with emphasis on the mystical and/or metaphysical capabilities that are/were attributed to, I concluded that ninjas of old were - to some degree - astute metaphysical practitioners. From there, I spent several years incorporating every aspect of the above (and other disparate things, music for example as I played the trumpet for about 10 years and spent some of the time studying music theory) into one all-encompassing ideology; the Zonbi Nindo was what resulted.

I'm omitting (for brevity, not out of disrespect) vast swaths of less-significant (though NOT insignificant) influences. In recent years I was particularly impressed by the work of Lysander Spooner, Larken Rose, Mark Passio, Cameron Day, as well as many MANY others. I don't unanimously agree with any/all of them, but there were definite nuggets in their work which I have incorporated.

Both Bruce Lee and Crowley especially indicated - if not outright professed - that one needn't emerge from within any particular tradition, school, or establishment, especially when such (at a certain point in progress) only provide limitations and obstacles; this position is also thoroughly explored and expressed in the Drizzt series. I'm not opposed to obstacles that are constructive, but tradition for tradition's sake is foolishness.

<looks back at the novella he's just written>

Thank you for the opportunity to respond to inquiry; it has been a welcome pleasure to do so, and I eagerly look forward to any further questions. I've only scratched the surface of the details of the Zonbi Nindo, and if needs be I will open a separate thread for it. For now however - and as said, if it does not offend Nigella - I'll suffice to extrapolation here. ^_^

 

Where do you see quantum mechanics and and large number theory in this , if at all.
And there is nothing wrong with gibbering on , have not seen houdinis hanger.

But yeah do you see any connection to them , in your field.
I take it this is your game , the subject of the thread (your interest)

How did you get into it.?

The thread can do with a human touch , don't you think , something about yourself ?


How did you become interested in this subject

 

Well that's one at least,... besides, I'm bored.

If what follows is seen as belaboring to this thread, I trust it will be summarily removed. I'd post a new thread, but I can't figure out how yet! insanee

Metaphysics - to me - is about recognizing limitation, while expanding and realizing potential (potentiation) in absence of limitation. Trying to control the world outside one's self may be possible to a certain degree, but it does so operating from the limitation of being unable to accept aspects of the world which are quite literally beyond one's control; a person can hold a pendulum at an angle for example, but one cannot force the pendulum to stay there, and the moment one lets go of the pendulum it swings - often violently - in the opposite direction one is holding it. So it is with magic, where one can potentially cause momentary change, but that change is in defiance of the natural expression of things, and is likely to result in a similar reversal in absence of magical pressure. Rather than desiring to move the pendulum (with exception), one is better suited to accepting and allowing for how a pendulum expresses its self naturally.

Simply, the only aspect of the world that one can truly control (and even THAT has its limitations; try and control your hair or nail growth for example!) is the self, which therefore is the only aspect of the world one is suited to attempting to control.

There are particular tools which I use, which are in many ways parallel and comparable to 'classic' tools (athame, chain, flail, etc.) but these tools are equally secular, ideological, and metaphysical; the tanto is as much a self-defense tool as it is an ideological reference to the concept of enervation, or manifestation of the divisive reason.

 

Magic (or with a k if preferred) is, has been, and always will be - IMO - about personal sovereignty and emergence, and is best practiced individually and personally. It is about manifesting and realizing the highest expression of one's self, and has been said is not suited to intermingling energies, whether they be subconscious, extra-dimensional (from self of 'others') or what have you.

As such, magic that 'affects the world' is rather a base gesture IMO. It is an expression of personal, dispositional, philosophical, etc. impotence. If something is unchangeable by secular means, then one is best suited to coming to terms with this than trying metaphysical means to change it.

For example, I could express my dissatisfaction with aspects of the world, but the moment I begin to attempt magical workings that would otherwise affect the world, I am likewise expressing my inability to come to terms with how things are; I would further suggest that I'm resigning myself to the belief that 'whatever' can't be changed by secular means.

I struggle to supply a sufficient example, but let's assume there is a truck bearing down on me and there is NO escape (no matter HOW I confront or creatively attempt). Rather than attempting metaphysical means to do something about the situation, I would be better suited to coming to terms with the imminent consequences.

It is for this reason (shameless self-promotion ahead) that I founded the Way of the Zombie Ninja (Zonbi Nindo); a physiological (body), mental (mind), and spiritual (metaphysical) discipline geared toward emergence of all kinds. The only metaphysical (read: magical or ritual) activity is as of a unification, synthesis, and to some degree a milestone of one's emergent progress. Spectators and participants alike are neither permitted nor encouraged, as all sorts of problems occur and develop with just one (let alone many) additional participant. Moreover, the first salient metaphysical act of the Zonbi Nindo practitioner is to cancel and evict all contracts, entities, participations, etc. (aside from the crafting/gathering of tools and the understanding of them).

I have found in my interactions that the principle motivator for ritual magic stems from attachment of some kind, which IMO is the biggest thing to be removed, exorcised, and otherwise avoided. One could strip me of my magical tools, and I will be fine. One could strip me of all my secular belongings, and I would still be fine in a manner of speaking. The "I" that would be fine is infinite and unchanging, all that I experience is an individuated experience of "I". This individuated "I" is not more or less entitled to any/all experience, be they adverse or pleasant, and whatever circumstances occur are a means to that end. I may act in a secular manner to ensure as much conducive experience as possible (working a job to ensure food on the table for example) but beyond a certain point I am unable to guarantee anything, and any 'guarantee' I might attempt is a fool's errand IMO; magic notwithstanding.

I'll go on if there is interest.

 

Your contribution while over my head, will be looked at several times a day for me to try and wrap my head around. Thank you.

 

Let me explain the string a little

It is a very slight thing....
It is a very unweighted thing.......

You can be lucky to see it , you may even be able to disturb it when you say or do something...
The thing you say or do does not touch it ....
It doesn't hear it , the thing you say, but if you care and are not aware ,you may get a scare , if you show some flair , I'm good cos I have no hair...

That last bit was me being silly, but ,there is a point in that....I was constantly dragged over the coals for being irreverent when I first appeared in the file...
I would say something childish at the very moment of tension , the class would laugh , yes, my tutor would get very angry..
I just thought it was usual, you know, like school or any of the institutes .....

One of my report cards actually said "Stephen is a bright lad, but he suffers from a mistaken identity that of a clown."

I just thought it was more of that...
But no, as I became more interested and less stupid , I realised the reason he became so angry was it scared away any such that you need....the string is so slight,
So you understand his anger when he gets just to the moment of tension ,and I say stupid things , make a fart noise etc...
I ruined a days work.

Hawk is also fantastic at this....and expert , he single handedly stopped me from continuing on with what I was saying just as I was about to say the bit that mattered , because I'm English I talk for half an hour , and the point is at the end..
Because of this bad timing and my Englishness , you hardly ever got the point.(it wasn't always hawk).

So you worship , thrones and stones , trumpets and regalia, they will ensure the string is not present, now look at custom caldron and religion , the way all such are stuck in pomp and ceremony.....
The coronation , the canonisation , the in science , the singing......

All guaranteed to scare a string away....

The CERN boys n girls are really having problems .....

A Turin machine is affected easily, it has such lightness about it, nano technology is going to be a boon.....

 

That would be most awesome. Very difficult musing this topic by myself. What do you suggest?

 

If I ask you to rename this thread for a bit....

I might be able to get a large number to come here, might.!

 

I actually gave it back to him if I recall correctly...

 

And the burning question i cant seem to swallow....What did you do with that dime?????
Oh and Im Rita btw, nice to meet you ...i save those type of things not for the majik but for what is endowed and bestowed upon it....my collection is consuming my closets! So is the dime tucked away......






He had dropped me off at a bus station and given me a dime to use a payphone, when I reached my destination. Since I had my own dime, I kept the one he gave me.
When I got home, I picked some sweet smelling plants, (I have no idea which now, but they were wild, we were not green thumbs) and put them in a small silver bowl that was used for candy. I placed the bowl of plant stuff next to my telephone.
Then I dropped the dime in it.
The man DID call me again, and for a short agonizing time, we saw each other. But in the end, it only served to drag out a painful reality that we were both born at the wrong times for the relationship to blossom.

 

So as usual, this is out of sequence. But I was moved to pop this vid in to briefly address gathering energy for intentions. When I say briefly I mean I am going to post this video and maybe will talk some more to it later.

It is past the halfway mark when it starts to get interesting.
"I Love Lucy" has been a lifelong love of mine. I have been watching it since I was a small girl. The clip above is from a scene that sort of blew me awy back then, but I didn't understand why I was enchanted. Speaking of enchanting...notice how they break the flow and rhythm with dialogue...hmmm

 

I guess at the moment, I feel led to talk about WHEN MAGICK DOESN'T WORK.
A lot of people are surprised that spell work is quite often a lengthy and ongoing process. I have had spells actively working for two years or more to achieve a goal. This is a far cry from the old TV program "Bewitched", where "Samantha" waves her hands or wiggles her nose and manifests what she wants.
Maybe High Magick works faster...I don't know.
My point is, if Magick doesn't work you probably haven't devoted enough time or energy to the subject. This is why I always discouraged "Quick Spells" and wanna be pagans that were just interested in manifesting without effort or focus. (Another reason for failure, although even then it can sometimes work.)
There is another reason your Magick might not produce the effects you were trying to achieve. Many people include the intention that whatever is manifested, be for the "good of all."
Sometimes your intentions might not line up with this universal petition.

 

Without a lot of feedback, I doubt I will bother to be coherent with this thread. Instead, since I am mostly entertaining myself and my own ideas, I will jump around as it pleases me and ruminate on whatever floats into my mind.
One of my friends brought it to my attention that this was Imbolc today, indeed once upon a time I might be celebrating this Holiday with some women I know.
Today my life is a little quieter.
I thought I would take a moment to speak again on my reluctance to group Magick. I have two reasons that I shy away from it mostly.
First, I rarely find myself in conditions so dire, that I need that kind of assistance. I am not saying it will never happen, just that it hasn't been my experience as of yet.
Secondly, I am reluctant to merge my energies with others, even the ones I trust implicitly. There have been a time or two when someone else's subconscious intentions found the way into the energies we raised and released. There are people who can "read" if a person is in a good and clean position for ritual, but I am not one of them.

 

group hugparteeparteepartee

 

This is sort of getting preachy, and I don't want it to sound like I am an expert. Truth is, like everything else, I am trying to organize and articulate, just what it is I think. I expect to see a few contradictions.
I do not expect any (many ) to even read this thread but me. Since this site is in early stages, the thread is likely to get buried when things pick up. Until then, I hope my friends that DO see this, barge in and offer another perspective. And if you read this and don't belong to this site, skype me, pm me or email me, so that we can discuss this. I would like a fresh outlook.

 

I would say that 85% of the "Spell" trade that came my way was someone, usually a woman, wanting a love spell. I really felt sympathy for these women. How many times in my life did I feel like life wasn't worth living when some douchebag rejected me? I would help her approach the problem one of two ways, we would try and bring forth her most visible, sensual self. (This had mixed results). Or we would find a way to issue a universal invite for her next passion to appear. (This might not always be a mate, but sometimes a project that absorbed the client).

 

I moved to a big city when I was a young girl, and sort of got sidetracked for a few years, with music and the social scene. I had the time of my life and really had little reason to "work" anything. But I sure was protected, this I think was not due to any efforts or intuitions. I think it simply wasn't my destiny to be harmed back then.
I lived in some pretty "economical" neighborhoods back then. One was the East Village, and when I returned home at night, (or in the morning) I would often walk by this shop.



http://www.enchantmentsincnyc.com/onlinestore.asp

 

It is my opinion that all the tools we use for magic are just dressing to help us focus on our goal. Some of the things we do are to raise enough energy to release with our intentions. Sort of like "paying our way" instead of freeloading on our unseen sources. Chanting and dancing are a couple of ways this happens. Sex is also a way to raise an energetic payment, but might be reserved for something that needs a potent punch. Most of the energy raising I did was simply walking in a circle. But, as you can see I never really stretched further than I needed magickly.

 

* I will concede that ritual high magick is a good choice for healing.

 

A word on "early suffering". A painful history is very useful for managing other peoples' angry energies. It toughens you to external ill intentions. If someone throws a "whammy" at you, you might not even notice it. It might feel like a "flat tire", a noticeable aggravation, if you are tough, you fix the "tire". It hardly breaks your stride.

 

Most of the people that were drawn to Magick, at least the ones that I met, belonged to three groups.
1. They wanted to manifest "stuff" that they didn't want to work for.
2. They wanted to avenge and protect themselves.
3.They wanted to find a way to connect with "life".
The third group was the one I was most inclined to lend my attention to. I will not pretend that I didn't make a good living on the first group, but I was always upfront with my opinion.
The second group only got my attention, to the degree that I would try and show them that they didn't need vengeance or "protection" to be happy and live unmolested. This group is why I kept most of my oils, black candles and black salt in my apothecary "back room". (You would not believe how many people tried to follow me in there).
I also never sold "Athames". ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athame ) Not because I object to them, I just thought carrying something that could be turned on me in my own store, seemed a foolhardy choice for stock.

 

The thing that always irked the shit out of me was that people seemed to gravitate towards Magick for "Power". I always tried to steer these folks to books that spoke of ethics and responsibility. A few Satanists straggled in but never felt welcome. I have rode enough chaos in my life without trying to wrestle with their ideologies.
One young man came in to my shop with a couple of little Goths, looking for a book on curses. I tried to steer him to some other books that described the principals of magick, and even told him that he could reach his goals without curses. His response was "I'm not new to Magick." My response was, "You must be, or you wouldn't need to use someone else's spellwork for your own."
Needless to say, he left my store with his dreams of wreaking havoc temporarily dashed.
He left a half a can of soda behind, and when I chased him down to return it, I looked deeply in his eyes. I could tell he was trying to start "shit". He apologized profusely. (I know most of you won't understand my objection to him leaving something behind, it doesn't matter, he knew why). He was lucky, someone else might have had a little fun with his DNA.
It is always better to have people underestimate you.

 

When I owned my shop, woman after woman would come in an announce that they were a "Solitary". (A witch that does her practice alone).
This is a label that I always shrank from. None of us are "solitary" when we practice. If you were alone, it wouldn't work. And Magick can and will work for anyone who tries it.
One of the reasons I believe that you don't need more people to manifest is because you are not without spiritual and elemental help. When you bring other people to practice, you also bring their "Crew". So when you think you are inviting one person, you maybe be inviting 10 of her closest friends too, only they are unseen. As you can see, this can get pretty crowded and maybe a little more power than you need.
I continued to use unseen means to manifest when I was young and never studied any philosophies or schools of Magick. My small rituals and petitions were created by myself intuitively, and to be perfectly honest , the means I favored throughout my life.
I have not practiced any formal Magick in the last five years, for a number of reasons, but mostly because I have not needed to.